Healthy Relationships
Relationships are great, but they’re not always easy. Got to make time for each other, got to communicate. If you’re in a relationship with a military member, in the context of the lifestyle, it’s just more complex. This episode explores what you need for a healthy relationship and some things to watch out for.
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Special Guest
Holly Flower is a social worker and counsellor with the Esquimalt Military Family Resource Centre.
Highlights
- Characteristics of a healthy relationship
- Financial issues can be massive.
- 10:44 The importance of trust
- 11:58 Anger gets a bad rap.
- Red flags
- 16:36 Communication and how we are showing up in the relationship
- Do not take relationships for granted.
Quotes
“It’s really critical that we’re prioritizing our relationships, that we’re not taking them for granted, that we are learning how to turn towards one another, how to communicate with one another, how to have each other’s back when it does get difficult.” – Holly Flower
Connect
Links
Holly’s Recommended Book List
- “Hold Me Tight – Seven Conversations for a Lifetime of Love” by Dr. Sue Johnson
- “The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work” by Dr. John M. Gottman
Thank you
- Thank you to Organized Sound Productions for their help bringing this podcast to life.
Transcript
Holly
It’s really critical that we’re prioritizing our relationships, that we’re not taking them for granted, that we are learning how to turn towards one another, how to communicate with one another, how to have each other’s back when it does get difficult.
Intro
The military lifestyle is all encompassing. It’s difficult, but rewarding. Dynamic, very, very dynamic. Unpredictable. You are in the Canadian Armed Forces, or a family member connected to the military. You know, the lifestyle can be a challenge. The military lifestyle is always changing. In this podcast, we explore the world of deployments, postings, and transitions. This is the military lifestyle. Here’s your host, Jon Chabun.
Jon
Relationships are great, but they’re not always easy. Got to make time for each other, got to communicate. If you’re in a relationship with a military member, in the context of the lifestyle, it’s just more complex. Holly Flower, social worker and counselor with the Esquimalt MFRC is here to talk about healthy relationships next. Today, we’re talking with Holly Flower, a member of the family wellness and counseling team at Esquimalt MFRC.
Holly
That’s right, where the family wellness and counseling team. Yeah.
Jon
Thank you for coming.
Holly
Oh, it’s my pleasure. I’m really grateful for the opportunity.
Jon
Now we’re here to talk about healthy relationships. What are some characteristics of a healthy relationship?
Holly
Well, it’s interesting, I think I might start first, with the reality. You know, I think social media and stories that were told as children in the fairy tales, portray an image of what a healthy relationship might be, that for most of us, it’s just not accurate. In my mind, a healthy relationship becomes more apparent when we’re really, really in the mess of life. And so what I mean by that is, you know, after the first deployment or a posting, or if a baby comes, or if there’s financial struggles, which is part of the reality of people’s lives, how does a relationship feel? What do people do when it’s really, you know, in those difficult times, do they turn towards each other? Do they have create a sense of equality and respect between one another? Do they feel safe? Do they feel psychologically, physically, sexually, spiritually? Do they feel safe within the relationship? I’m often looking at the emotional climate. When you go home, are you feeling supported? Is that your safe spot? Is that the place when you’ve had a tough day that you know, you can go and turn towards your intimate partner and think that person sees me, that person gets me, this person can help me feel a bit better. And I can do that for them as well.
Jon
Yeah, that’s interesting. It’s almost, there’s an analogy of you’re only as strong as your weakest day or something. I don’t . I’m butchering that I’m not sure what it is. So can I give give me like an idea if we’re like, doing good, or if there’s signs of trouble, or if there’s something like it’s kind of really bad, you were talking like the relationship feel is like that safety sounds like a really important and just that trust.
Holly
For sure. And we’re all human beings. And we’re all going to have days where, you know, maybe we haven’t had as much sleep, maybe work was incredibly stressful. And so the way in which we show up with our partner is not maybe our ideal. For me, that’s less of an indicator of what’s happening in the relationship. It’s more about what happens when we’re having this difficult days. What do we do with our angst and our difficulty? Are we able to turn to our partners and feel safe? Do we feel like we’re equal in that partnership? Do we feel like if we express what’s happening for us that we’ll be ridiculed shut down, that there’s even a place to express that. So when you say, what are some indicators? What are some things to watch for? People will argue and have disagreements there will be conflict that is a regular part of life. Conflict in and of itself isn’t a problem. It’s what we do with the conflict. Do we ever feel frightened? Do we ever feel like we’re walking on eggshells? When we think of our partner do we think about or worry about, oh my gosh, what will their reaction be today? What would their reaction be if my child makes a sound. That for me is a an indicator that things need to be looked at, and paid attention to.
Jon
When people talk with each other is there’s certain things that stand out to you?
Holly
Well, first of all, do they talk with each other.
Jon
The silent treatment is not a good thing?
Holly
No, and there’s so much I could say about that. I mean, the ways in which we deal with conflict is really critical to look at, you know, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done as individual people, that impacts the way that we show up with our partners. So turning towards our partner, rather than away from them, when things get difficult is the goal. So that connection, that attachment, that place that both partners know that it’s a safe place to be emotional, it’s a safe place to feel frightened, it’s a safe place to express frustration, and expressing it though in a regulated safe way, if that makes sense.
Jon
And when it comes to things like your intimate life, whatever, like a healthy relationship look like there?
Holly
Well, it’s interesting because intimacy happens on multiple levels. So if you’re talking specifically about sexuality, both partners should feel safe, both partners should feel like they can say no, that they’re not interested in having sex, and that it’ll be honored. Often interest in being sexual is tied to the safety of the relationship ironically. If one person feels seen and respected and heard and honored, in those day to day moments, then chances are, they’re going to feel more inclined to be sexually intimate and interested, anytime somebody feels like they’re being forced, or that they have to have sex, or they’re being belittled or ridiculed. That’s a problem.
Jon
Things like your social life, or how family gets along.
Holly
Absolutely. And it’s interesting, because our family of origins will have opinions about our partners. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s a problem with our partner. And yet, if we’re hearing from our friends, and the people who love us, and who have known us for a while that they’re concerned about the behavior of our partners, that might be something to be open to, to listen to, to wonder about. If we are concerned about what our partners might say, or do in a public setting, or if we find that we’re being told that we’re not able to see this friend, or this family member, or call this friend or call this family member, then again, that’s a that’s a red flag that says that there’s something going on that there’s an issue of control that needs to be addressed.
Jon
So yeah, if you’re just kind of blocking social life, you’re blocking, like interactions with people that’s not healthy, right?
Holly
Yeah. And especially if it’s coming from your partner, that this is what needs to happen. If you’re finding that you’re feeling more and more isolated and cut off, it’s time to pay attention and to perhaps seek supports, which can be difficult to do if you’re being told who to call in with.
Jon
But guess on the flip side, if you’re supporting your partner going out, having a social life, having other interests, and engaging with family, engaging with friends, that’s really positive.
Holly
Absolutely, you know, our relationships offer this beautiful opportunity for connection and attachment. And yet, we are individuals within a relationship. So our ability to foster friendships outside the relationship to pursue interests and hobbies, to grow and to learn, even if our partner doesn’t share the same interest is really critical, and allows us to actually show up in our relationships in a whole way, and a more holistic present way where we feel like we’re growing as individuals and able to bring that growth into the relationship.
Jon
When things come to the money side. Money is a huge issue in a lot of relationships, talking about money and handling money, and I even no idea that people would cut each other off, like financially and limit their spending.
Holly
What’s really interesting, you’re absolutely right, Jon, money and financial issues are huge when it comes to our relationships with our partners. Each person will come from a different family of origin with different expectations around money, how it’s spent, what you buy, how you save, when you save, all of that. And so the interface between one partner and another, and the language around it, and the experience and the values around spending can be quite different. So it becomes critical that people can communicate their needs, their values around money. And also when you’re talking about red flags, if we start to see that the bank account is being emptied, or you know that you’re being told when you can spend and how you can spend, then that’s important to pay attention to. It’s one thing to have a discussion around, hey, do you need this? And do I need that? And it’s a discussion. And as I talked about before, that people feel equal, that they have an equal sense of self and voice in that decision making. The moment somebody says, I make the decisions, and you get this much money, and you can’t access anymore, then that’s a problem that reflects a deep level of control and can fuel that isolation that can happen in an unhealthy relationship.
Jon
Yeah, so is it important people have a little bit of independence is that? A healthy relationship would be just very supportive of people and their ability to have control those sort of things to trust.
Holly
Trust is huge. Thank you for bringing that up. Because trust is a key part of that, you know, relationship, and ties in to the experience of finances, and social connections, all of it, having some freedom, and yet being deeply connected and attached to our partners, which fosters that trust. It’s the, you know, being deeply connected, having the trust, having the sense of safety, and then allowing each other to grow and be dependent and to make decisions about what they’ll spend money on that particular day. But again, big, big spending and you know, things that impact the family as a whole. It’s important to discuss.
Jon
I think definitely communication when it comes to spending money is probably absolutely key.
Holly
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Jon
And involving both parties. Definitely. When it comes to anger, what’s a good way to express that? That a bit might be a challenging one. But is there? Is there a good model for being angry?
Holly
I think anger gets a really bad rap, to be honest with you. I feel …
Jon
Sweet. Let’s all get angry.
Holly
Yeah. Well, the reason why it gets a bad rap is I believe, world according to Holly, that we think of it in its most extreme expression. So when it really does become damaging and painful to other people, or ourselves, right. But anger in and of itself, which gets expressed in a whole variety of ways, tells us that it’s time to pay attention to something, there’s something underneath that anger, we call this secondary emotion. Because often it’s reflecting feelings of fear, or shame, or feeling like we’re losing power over something or control. Expressing anger, yes, becomes critical when we are in an intimate partner relationship. Because if we don’t learn about how we personally experience anger, there’s a risk that we will use it in ways or experience it in ways that will impact our partner negatively, when we start to understand that there’s a physiological aspect to anger, there’s an emotional response, a psychological response, that it’s all connected, then we’re better able to process the experience and show up in a way that allows us to express what we’re feeling without harming the other person psychologically, or physically, in the worst case.
Jon
Red flags when it comes to relationships, is there anything that it makes you go? Yeah, something’s wrong here.
Holly
You know, it’s an interesting thing that often people won’t seek support around behaviours they’re not happy about in themselves, because of the shame factor. Or when we hear that somebody is using anger, or violence in relationship, we automatically discount or judge that person or write them off. When in reality, we are a complex species, you know, people are rarely all good or all black, we’re all sorts of shades of grey. But when we’re using our anger, or our fear is motivating us to use power over others, at the expense of others, it means it’s time to get some support and help. And I wouldn’t do this work if I didn’t believe in my heart of hearts, that people with support can make those critical changes. That being said, using violence in a relationship, whether it’s psychological violence, whether it’s emotional violence, whether it’s sexual violence, physical violence, spiritual violence, using violence in a relationship is not okay. And one of the beliefs is, you know, people might tell themselves is, well, if that person didn’t, then I wouldn’t have, you know, have had to have done this thing. And yet, it is never the other person’s responsibility in terms of how we choose to show up and what we choose to do in that relationship. It is always our responsibility. So the change begins with us all say that little piece first, because I think it’s really critical. I think if we’re in a relationship And we’re noticing that we’re often uncomfortable, either psychologically, in all those areas of life that I’m listing, you know, if we are uncomfortable in any aspect of our relationship, if we have children, and we’re wondering, oh my gosh, how will my kids be impacted by this behavior that it is time to pay attention, it is time to look at what supports might be offered. I see in the work that I’ve done with people. And as a human being myself, most of us fear change more than we fear what we’re actually experiencing. What’s that analogy with the frog? That’s, that’s a sad analogy. I don’t know. You know, we’re, we’re in the warm water. It’s lukewarm. And it’s being turned up, it’s being turned up, it’s being turned up. So it could be that we see behaviours, Oh, my gosh, my partner, you know, after it’s been a rough day, and maybe they’ve had a drink or two gets kind of yell-y. And we justify that say, well, it was a rough day, no wonder. And then we see and what I’ve seen in my work, and what research says is that things escalate, that it very rarely stays at a level, you know, for seeing things that are making us feel deeply uncomfortable about our safety or the safety of others, emotionally, psychologically, or physically. It rarely stays at this level. Chances are, it may escalate into something more dangerous, more painful, more difficult, more impactful on the children. And make no mistake children are impacted by the climate of the home.
Jon
Communication is a huge thing. What do you recommend to families? Or what do you recommend to couples when it comes to communication?
Holly
Well, you’re absolutely right on communication is huge. Ironically, we often think that communication is all about the words that we say. And what I would say from my experience is that communication has so much more to do with how we’re showing up, which requires some individual work. And what I mean by that is really understanding what it is we value as individuals, what’s important to us, understanding what our personal boundaries are, what do we need to feel safe and comfortable? Starting to figure out how to have empathy for another human being. How might they feel? What might that look like for them? You know, this is all individual work we can be doing. We talked about anger, understanding our experience of anger, what happens in our nervous system in our body, and our brain when we’re experiencing anger so that we know the science of when we’re feeling it, and how to process it, and what to do. All of that is critical to communication. Lastly, when we’ve sorted all that we have an understanding of that experience. Then we learn how to use words, you know, how do we speak to our partner, when the emotions feel big, when there’s a vested interest. When there’s a financial disagreement, for example, or a parenting disagreement. How do we speak to them in a way where we’re not shutting them down, or kind of getting their backs up, or creating a situation where they’re immediately feeling like they have to defend themselves. So that that’s important, you know, people will throw things around, like, oh, using “I” statements, and but there’s so much more to communication. I mean, if you think about it, most of our communication has nothing to do with words, it has to do with our tone, and our body language. So I could say to my partner, Oh, I love you. And if you were in the room with me, you would see that there was an eye roll, perhaps you could hear a kind of a snarky tone, I have not said I love you, I’ve said something entirely different, and my partner will have picked up on that. It’s a whole other thing to say I love you. Understanding how we’re showing up because we learn from our families of origin. We develop in our own lives growing up through school, all these experiences we have, we learn ways of showing up that we think will keep us safe, that we think will get our point across that we think will make sure that we’re winning, those experiences often come at the loss of connection and a relationship. So doing that individual work. You can do that with a counselor you can find books, you can find resources online, there’s a lot to support people’s learning around communication.
Jon
So with “I” messages, your example might be you never wash the dishes. And rather than saying that you might frame it of when you do whatever action it makes me feel this way. I think that’s basically um, I learned about it many, many years ago, but yeah, you just got to be watch where you put people on the defensive
Holly
Yeah, because, you know, it’s a bit of a paradigm shift. We’re often scanning our relationships through the lens of, well, if this person did this, and this person’s displeasing me and this person, never and this person, this person, so imagine you know, somebody coming to you and saying, you never do the dishes. Well, one that’s a huge generalization and may or may not be entirely true. And the person’s immediately going to want to defend themselves. When we claim the experience, and we say, I’m feeling this way, and here’s what I need than the other person, the possibility of them actually being open to hearing what you have to say, and actually being interested in supporting you to meet those needs increases, because they’re not suddenly having to defend themselves. You know, this ties back to communication, we’re often listening to the other person, and formulating our thoughts, formulating our responses, deciding how we’re going to refute them, how we’re going to prove we’re wrong and their rights. Well, what if we didn’t do that, and instead, because we really care about our partner, and we love them, we stopped, and we listened? And we really tried to hear and understand what it was they were trying to say. And especially when there’s big emotions, trying to express those big emotions, those places where we feel kind of tender, and vulnerable. It’s hard enough if we’re trying to express that. And then our partner is saying, well, I wouldn’t if you didn’t, and you always, we just close right up, because we have to protect our hearts. Right? And we have to defend ourselves at that moment.
Jon
Do you offer any tips for couples when it comes to communications?
Holly
As I said, My first tip is do the individual work, whether that’s with a counselor, whether that’s looking into communication, do the individual work, and then as a couple, clearly, I’m biased because I’m a counselor, but we talk about looking after our bodies all the time eating healthy food, exercising, and yet we don’t think about the work that it takes to maintain our mental well being, our relationships, that that also benefits from attention and from intention, desire to make it to healthier. And so seeking support, seeking support through a counselor can be an excellent way to learn how to communicate, to have somebody there to support you through that process.
Jon
Well, what if I don’t want to do that?
Holly
Oh, most people, don’t you know why? Because it’s highly vulnerable, it is a vulnerable place to step into.
Jon
Is there is there a place to start at home?
Holly
Yes, starting at home, you can find books, and I believe we can list them books for you. After this is finished, we can supply you with some books where you can start, you will find information online about communication about healthy relationships, there’s a lot, you can start with the CAFconnection, we’ve got something called the healthy relationships campaign, a in particular, and I feel very strongly that this this does reflect this campaign reflects some important aspects of a healthy relationship as well as you know, the things we talked about the things to be looking at in a relationship that may mean added supports are needed.
Jon
Now, there’s a lot of supports available through the Canadian Armed Forces. And we’ll list those in the show notes. Is there anything else you would mention for couples when it comes to healthier relationships?
Holly
I think it’s critical that we not take our relationships for granted. We start off choosing someone and we love them. And we have that gushy oxytocin flow, that makes life feel brighter and wonderful. And then real life hits, children, deployments, financial stresses, pandemics, it’s really critical that we’re prioritizing our relationships, that we’re not taking them for granted, that we are learning how to turn towards one another, how to communicate with one another, how to have each other’s back when it does get difficult, because it’s difficult as a relationship can be, it brings love and joy. I often think that the things that are of the most worth in this life experience are not easily attained. The things that bring the most meaning, usually require some work, do the work, put the work into your relationship, prioritize your relationship, it’s worth it. And yet if you are unsafe, if you are emotionally physically sexually unsafe, there is support out there and it can be frightening to reach out for support. But people like myself and many others are here to talk with you and talk you through what the process might look like for you and where you can find safety.
Jon
Thank you very much for your time, Holly.
Holly
Oh, it’s my pleasure, Jon. Thank you.
Jon
Lots of great tip sheets and resources on healthy relationships at CAFconnection.ca. If you ever need help the family information line, the member assistance program and your local MFRC are a few places to start.
Extro
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Military Lifestyle. To learn more about this episode and to check out our other resources like the deployment app, go to Esquimaltmfrc.com A special thanks to Organized Sound Productions for bringing our idea to life. Please share this podcast with your military family or with someone living the lifestyle. Subscribe to The Military Lifestyle on your favorite podcast app. Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you for listening.
