Looking for Work in a New Community
Military families have to recreate community with every posting. For some military spouses or partners that can mean looking for work in a new place and rebuilding from scratch. So, let’s break down how military families can address resumes, references, informational interviews plus a few skills that you can highlight.
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Special Guest
Kim Dillon is the Community Relations Coordinator at WorkLink, an employment centre with locations in Langford and Sooke here in Greater Victoria.
Highlights
- How to address having lots of shorter-term jobs or gaps in resumes.
- 3:25 You can put it in your cover letter but you don’t have to spell it out.
- Do employers have an unconscious bias against hiring someone that might leave in a few years?
- 7:54 The importance of references and informational interviews.
- Conducting yourself in a professional way – in person and online.
- 13:00 A few transferrable skills that military-connected family members can highlight.
- How to fully populate your LinkedIn account.
Quotes
“Having your spouse or partner leave for a number of months or having to change completely the town that you live in is hard. And that brings a lot of growth and skill. If you can highlight how resilient you are, and how hard working you are, that’s huge.” – Kim Dillon
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Thank you
- This podcast is made possible by funding from True Patriot Love Foundation.
- Thank you to Organized Sound Productions for their help bringing this podcast to life.
Transcript by Otter.ai
Intro
This podcast is made possible by funding from True Patriot Love Foundation.
Kim
The fact that you’re used to being resilient and dealing with some adversity, you know, having your spouse or partner leave for a number of months or having to change completely the town that you live in is hard, and that brings a lot of growth and skill.
Intro
The military lifestyle is all encompassing. It’s difficult, but rewarding. Dynamic, very, very dynamic. Unpredictable. You are in the Canadian Armed Forces, or a family member connected to the military. You know, the lifestyle can be a challenge. The military lifestyle is always changing. In this podcast, we explore the world of deployments, postings, and transitions. This is The Military Lifestyle. Here’s your host Jon Chabun.
Jon
Military families have to recreate community with every posting. For some military spouses or partners that can mean looking for work in a new place and rebuilding from scratch. Kim Dillon is the Community Relations Coordinator at WorkLink, an employment center with locations in Langford and Sooke here in Greater Victoria.
So, yes, today we’re talking about starting over again, in terms of employment, if you’re new to Greater Victoria are about to leave for something new or maybe if you’re somewhere else in the world, listening as a military family member, Kim Dillon from WorkLink is here to talk about this with us. Thank you, Kim.
Kim
Yeah, thank you, Jon.
Jon
So how do you address having lots of shorter term jobs? I’m thinking like two to three years or gaps in resumes. How do you overcome that?
Kim
Yeah, that’s a really good question. And I think the first thing to think about is that you don’t necessarily have to tell an employer that your spouse or your partner is in the military. That’s actually illegal for them to even ask about your marital status. It might be evident by way of your resume, like you’re saying that there may be some pretty obvious transitions that you’ve made frequently. But I also think that it’s important to remember that increasingly, most industries are seeing higher turnover, because technology is advancing so quickly, that it’s really common for people, especially in the tech industry, for instance, to stay at a job for a year and then move on. So I don’t think it’s as taboo anymore. However, I do think that it’s important to address it head on and sort of deal with the objection before it’s even voiced. So if you think, okay, this employer is going to kind of balk or shy away from my application, because they’re just going to think that I’m going to be posted again in another couple of years. Talk to that, speak to that and say, you know, I do have some transitions that are a possibility in the future. But because of the transitions I’ve gone through in the first part of my life, I can tell you that I am resilient, and nimble and adaptable. And I will work as hard as I can for you to grow and change with your business just like you need everybody too.
Jon
So do you have to approach a resume or cover letter differently? Do you put it in your cover letter and not even do it in your resume?
Kim
I think that you can put it in your cover letter. You don’t have to spell it out in terms of I’m a military spouse, and we’re going to be posted to Trenton next year. Right? I think that you can just speak to the fact that your life experience has given you those skills, and you’re happy to give those to your employer so that they can grow their business.
Jon
And if you’re out of towner, is it okay to apply for work, wherever you’re going to end up? Will employers be cool with that?
Kim
Yeah, absolutely. Actually at our WorkBC centre in Colwood, we have a room specifically set up so that people can have interviews via Skype or virtually because our world is getting really small right with the advance of technology again. So it’s not uncommon for an employer to hire people sort of sight unseen through a virtual interview. But make sure that when you’re doing that your LinkedIn account and profile look excellent, and that you’ve done your work to network within the community online.
Jon
Now, I’m thinking of like with employers, do they have an unconscious bias against hiring someone who that they might perceive as leaving in a few years?
Kim
I think that still does exist a little bit. Luckily, there are some employers who have actually committed to valuing what a military spouse brings to the table BMO Bank of Montreal, Garda World, Commissionaires, Bayshore Health Care, there’s a number of them that actually have signed on with the Military Spousal Network, which is an initiative brought on by the Canadian government to help people in this situation. So yeah, there are some employers that might have a bias. But there are also employers that recognize the incredible resiliency that they get from those types of employees.
Jon
But we still know it’s a challenge. I know, I read in a few online studies from the United States talking about unemployment rates of military spouses and estimates between 18 to 24%. So when it comes to something like references, what do you do with that?
Kim
Yeah, so I think it’s important first off to keep in touch with your references. And luckily, because of social media, now, it’s easier to keep in touch with references. If you’re at all concerned about what your reference might say about you. It’s important that you grab a friend or go to an employment centre like a WorkBC centre and ask somebody to call your reference for you to see what they’re going to say or even just ask the reference yourself, you know, what would you say about me if you were giving a reference and then you know what they’re going to say, as far as using references when you have like you say, had really long term employment, connect with other people in your community, that could be a reference for you. Maybe you volunteered, or maybe you’ve been on a project, those things are still really valuable. In the past, it might have been valued that you stay at one employer for 30 years. But the world is changing. Less and less, I think it’s an issue now. Yeah.
Jon
And do employers value a reference that might be on the other side of the country?
Kim
Yeah, absolutely. Because I think that that shows that you’re worldly and you have the ability to think outside the box, right? You don’t necessarily want to just have experience from your own little tiny community. You need some creativity and to be nimble. You need to have had some adversity in your life and to have some different perspectives.
Jon
With references. Is there a shelf life to them? Like, do they expire after like a certain number of years?
Kim
Yeah, that there’s a little bit of that you’re right. I think.
Jon
Freshness, you need a fresh reference.
Kim
Fresh is always better just like food. But I do think that there’s something to be said for a reference that’s five years old or even 10 years old, if they can really speak volumes to the skills that are important to the current employer that you’re applying with. So it might be that your last reference, your most recent reference can speak to certain skills that maybe aren’t as relevant to the job that you’re applying for. Do give that reference for sure, because it’s recent, but also look back on those older references, reach out to them and use them because they might be more relevant.
Jon
So if you’re gonna have to start over again, networking must be key. Usually, when I think of networking, there’s audible groan. You know, it’s like, networking. Oh, great. Wonderful. Yay. Yay, networking. Is that is that accurate?
Kim
Yeah, I think that we all have that a little bit, right. The main thing to remember is that, you know, we can all sit in our little hobble at home on the computer and network through LinkedIn or Facebook or apply for 100 different positions a day. But the thing that’s actually going to get you hired is being belly to belly with an employer or community member. And that means getting out there and asking for information interviews, because if you’re in a new town, or if you’re about to move to a new town, you don’t have a network of family and friends and peers in that town yet. So it’s just important to actually ask for an information interview. And luckily, we all love to talk about ourselves, right? And especially business owners or managers. They’re typically quite proud of what they’ve built. And so if you call them up, or go into the office and say, you know, I’d love to work for you or I’d love to work for your industry one day. Is there a chance you could speak with me for a few minutes and I could learn more about your company or your industry. 99% of the time, they’ll say yes, and so then you make sure that you ask for an interview in person. You go make sure that you stick to the timeframe that you’ve committed to so that you don’t take too much of their time. But then spend 15 minutes with them and ask them what it’s like to work in that industry or in that company. Ask them the skills that they’re looking for and the experiences they’re looking for. This is your chance to ask them all of that information that you can use down the road. It also is a huge, huge opportunity for you to become a known entity to them so that when they are eventually going to hire and they put out a posting, you apply and they go. Oh, right, Jon, I remember that guy. Actually. He was pretty decent. I think that we will give him an interview.
Jon
I am pretty decent, thank you.
Kim
So it makes it less risky for that employer to hire you and it gives you a huge edge over other people.
Jon
So informational interviews are great. Any other tips you have when it comes to networking?
Kim
It is exhausting looking for work. It really is a full time job, but to remember that you kind of need to be on. You know, if somebody cuts you off in traffic, maybe don’t finger them.
Jon
You never know that could be your next boss, right?
Kim
Yeah. So making sure that you’re conducting yourself in a professional way throughout your day, when you take your kids to the pool, and they’re, you know, kind of acting out. You’re not going to fly off the handle in front of everybody as much as you want to. Just making sure that you’re really thinking about your image in the community.
Jon
Yes. And if you participate in social media, which a lot of people do, yeah, almost have to do it what you have to I don’t know hire a person to manage yourself or you gotta do it yourself. But you got to screen basically some of your thoughts you got of before you hit send on that tweet, or that posting.
Kim
Absolutely you are when your job seeking, you are the product and you want to sell that product and you would never, when selling a product, speak in a derogatory way about that product. So don’t put yourself down by making yourself look like a jerk on social media. The other really interesting statistic is that 95%, roughly, of recruiters or employers will check a person’s social media profiles before hiring them. 75% of those employers will do that before they even meet the person. So when they’re checking through their stack of resumes, and again, on average, about 100 resumes per position that they’ll get when they’re trying to weed through those. They’re going to go onto Facebook or LinkedIn and look, you know, if there’s a humongous flag for them, they’ll just go on to the next resume.
Jon
Basically, if you have a profile picture on your Facebook account, you should be doing some humanitarian work or something, you know.
Kim
Hugging a puppy. And, you know, we can all do crazy things and have our cool crazy lives. But if you’re going to do that and want to be a part of that online, perhaps use a pseudonym for your Facebook account. And then definitely have a LinkedIn account that provides a really professional image of yourself with your actual name. So that employers when they do find you, they find the right profile.
Jon
And look at your privacy settings. Sometimes that can be really hard because they’re constantly changing how to, how to set those settings. You have to go in and really dig.
Kim
Yes, that’s really, really important. The nice thing about being on LinkedIn is that there is a privacy setting that will make it so that your current employer doesn’t usually see that you’re networking or that you’re putting yourself out there looking for work. It doesn’t always work but at least it filters through most of those searches your current employer might do.
Jon
And what are a few transferable skills that military-connected family members can highlight.
Kim
There’s a huge number of them. I think just the fact that you’re used to being resilient and dealing with some adversity. You know, having your spouse or partner leave for a number of months or having to change completely the town that you live in is hard. And that brings a lot of growth and skill. If you can highlight how resilient you are, and how hard working you are, that’s huge. The other thing that’s really important to highlight is your ability to develop relationships quickly, because again, robots can’t do those things. We are entering a highly automated age in the workforce. But those are the things that robots will never be able to do, and they’ll always be in demand.
Jon
Yeah, that was a lot of great points of different skills. What are there things that people can draw upon? And like for example, if they’re a parent or something, and I kind of wonder about all this stuff, you say that employers might value the skills of being a military family member or being a parent or something like that, but they will actually valuable skills, is that correct or some or most?
Kim
I think it’s important to spell it out for people though and to provide some social stories. So in your cover letter, or when you’re speaking to an employer, it’s important to say to them, you know, I’ve become really resilient. For instance, when we moved from Halifax to Victoria, I had to create a whole new social network for myself and my children. And I was able to connect with XYZ volunteer organization, and I got really involved with the PAC at my children’s school. And from that, I developed even more hard skills such as x, y, z, so that you really spell it out for people and they can start to imagine, yeah, this person does have skills I can use in my business. The other thing that I think is really important to highlight for employers is that just because you’ve been at home with children, or perhaps you’ve been caring for another family member, doesn’t mean you haven’t been working. Employers usually like to see what’s called a chronological resume. They like to see that you’ve worked here from this time period to this time period. And before that you worked here from this time period to this time period, and so on and so on. If you had 10 years or 15 years where you weren’t working outside the home, write down in there family caregiver, and list the things that you did, because I think more and more, we as a society need to value the lived experience of family caregivers, and not just those experiences that we get on the job outside of the home.
Jon
So how can you market your skills as a military family member? Give me a few tools? You spoke about LinkedIn is one thing, but what else would you recommend?
Kim
I think it’s really important again to network and your community. Reaching out to your WorkBC centre or your employment centre, wherever that is in the community or in the country. To meet with people in person, and gain those skills in interviewing and conducting information interviews is really, really helpful. Making sure that your LinkedIn account is fully populated is really important.
Jon
When you say fully populated, what are some things you can do with your LinkedIn account to kind beyond the basic, so I worked here from this time to that time.
Kim
Yeah, so one thing that’s really easy is that, like you’re saying, during the experience section of your profile, it’ll say, I worked at Acme company from 19, you know, 99 to 2003. Well, underneath that, make sure that you write a description about what you did at Acme because in that description, you’ll be able to use keywords, you’ll be able to describe the specific skills and experiences, the specific software you might have used an all of those words, heighten the computer’s search-ability to find you so that when an employer goes online, and they are searching for people who know SharePoint, for instance, your profile will come up. If it says that you use SharePoint at Acme company in 2003. If you don’t put those specific skills down, the employers won’t see you in their search.
Jon
So employers actually do that nowadays. Maybe I’m just out of the loop so much that I don’t know. I’ve been working here too long, I guess, sheltered. So people will actually do a little keyword searches for specific skills.
Kim
Yeah, more and more people are using LinkedIn, especially for those online searches, and even using Indeed and other online platforms to find employees. So those keywords are your friend, those are the ones that are going to get you found, even if the employer doesn’t see those keywords through a search. Having those parts of your LinkedIn account populated means that you’re now going to have an expert level profile. That’s what LinkedIn would call it an expert level profile, if everything is filled in, and then your posts are more likely to come up. So your credibility is then heightened. And again, the more you post or comment or even like other people’s posts on LinkedIn, then your level of credibility goes up and your visibility on LinkedIn goes up. You can even publish a short article. You know, all of us now can be bloggers, and all of us now we’re experts. So write an article about what you know and publish it on LinkedIn. And that is huge, people then see you for this skilled expert in your field, rather than just somebody who likes a post of somebody else’s.
Jon
A recommendation to military families would be to contact their local employment agency in their area. Here in the Victoria area, in the West Shore it’s WorkLink. And I know you said you’ve worked here for almost close to 20 years now. And geez, you must have there must have been quite a bit of change in that 20 years.
Kim
Absolutely. Yeah. Although to be honest with you some things never change. Information interviews, getting belly to belly with employers, developing those relationships are key.
Jon
Yeah. Is there anything else you would recommend for people?
Kim
I think you hit the nail on the head, Jon and saying that, you know, this is all very overwhelming and it’s a lot of information to take in sometimes, but just go and reach out to the resources that are available to you. Whether it’s online through the Military Spousal Employment Network, or going into an employment centre, like a WorkBC centre and getting support there. There are so many free services and even funding to go back to school or have a wage subsidy that can give you that edge and give you the confidence that you need to go out there and succeed.
Jon
And if you hate networking, there are some groups that have set up dedicated to networking. So there you don’t have to worry about networking, cold calling you can network with a bunch of people who also want to network.
Kim
So that’s right. Yeah, there’s Toastmasters. There’s tons of meetup groups, even just networking at a WorkBC centre. And remember that you can start safe first. So begin by networking to do with a hobby that you might have, because it’s pretty low stakes, and then move on to maybe a networking group, like a chamber of commerce, where you’re going to be dealing with people in the business realm.
Jon
Is there anything else you’d like to mention? Did we cover it all? Is it pretty good?
Kim
I think it’s the tip of the iceberg. People can come on into a centre and get lots of support and find out more.
Jon
All right, thank you for your time, Kim.
Kim
Thanks, Jon for having me.
Jon
Information for the Military Spousal Employment Network can be found at msen.vfairs.com. Bit of a mouthful, so you might just want to Google that. Also connect with your closest Military Family Resource Centre to see what they offer, or if there’s an employment center that can assist you.
Extro
Thank you for listening to this episode of The Military Lifestyle. To learn more about this episode, and to check out our other resources, like the Deployment App, go to a EsquimaltMFRC.com A special thanks to True Patriot Love Foundation for funding season one of this podcast and to Organized Sound Productions for bringing our idea to life. Please share this podcast with your military family or with someone living the lifestyle. Subscribe to the military lifestyle on your favorite podcast app. Your support is greatly appreciated. Thank you for listening.
